Where's the Lemonade

• Paige – 
• Got no advice on how to talk to the kids.
• Spur of the moment. Decided that morning.
• Not all the kids were there. Just Jake and Rachel. Then she called Amanda.
• Sat down together and told the kids together.
• They told the kids the reason for the divorce. 
• Separation for over a year.
• What would you have changed?
• Darren –
• Got advice from a marriage counselor on how to talk to the kids about the divorce.
• Planned how we were going to tell the kids for 4 months.
• In the meantime I purchased a house down the street from the house we were renting at the time.
• Told all of the kids at the same time.
• Did not tell the kids why we were getting divorced.
• Were legally separated for almost 5 months before telling the kids.
• All the kids were talking to counselors before the divorce. They all had someone to talk to.
• Tips
• BE CALM and not in a high emotional state. You need to make sure you are calm cool and collected.
• Plan out what you are going to say.
• Give the kids the opportunity to ask questions and time to.

What to do after you tell the kids

Tips

• It’s about the children not about you. Don’t inject your anxiety into the situation.
• What is the plan for the day after you tell the kids?
• Are you still living in the same house?
• What logistics are there? Who pays for what? 
• What do the kids think we could have done differently.
• Should you tell the kids why you got divorced?

Lemonade Moment of the Week

Links

Transcript

[Music]

hello this is Darren and this is Paige

and this is where’s the lemonade where

we talked about what happens when life

throws you lemons make some lemonade

maybe some weeks it’s lemons worse

yeah some weeks it’s just lemons on

today’s episode we’re going to talk

about how to tell your kids about your

divorce or separation worst day ever if

the opening sounds a little gloom

because this is a pretty tough subject

it is doom and gloom

it is 2min gloom and we had no idea how

much it would be until we started

working on this episode yeah I mean even

when you and I were discussing it cuz we

thought oh this is gonna be a really

good episode which I did I think it is

gonna be a good episode but even you and

I we had to kind of go to our own

corners because it was getting we

weren’t getting angry with each other

it was just bringing back bad memories

yeah yeah it wasn’t we were we were

getting kind of irritable and not really

towards each other but just yeah it

brings up a lot of sadness it does and

at first we were gonna call this episode

divorce dog how to navigate your kids

through the separation but we didn’t get

past talking and preparing for just

talking to them about the separation

yeah so we decided that divorce dog is

gonna be a different episode exactly you

know we did some research online and we

also talked to our older kids oh that

was hard too it was very interesting it

was because everybody has a different

perspective of that day and of what

happened and of what was said depending

on their age their maturity their you

know what I mean like everyone had you

know took something different away I

mean we all took away the same thing our

families have now been divided yeah so I

guess our first advice to everyone is

don’t get divorced don’t do it

if there’s any possible way to save it

save it any any shred of any inkling

that you can stay together stay so

that’s our first advice that’s our first

vise our second advice is there’s no

perfect way to do this the way that you

did it is almost a complete opposite of

the way that that I handle it they’re so

different it’s amazing and you guys are

here the contrast between the two but

the end result with our children when we

talked to them was pretty much the same

they remember the day very well which

they always will as we do too and makes

them very sad it does so let’s first

talk about your your day that you told

your kids about the separation

mine was spur the moment not it wasn’t

just oh wow

my marriage is falling apart today and

you know it wasn’t that they’ve been

building for years I’ve been building

for years

and something happened that day that

kind of was the tip right that knocked

everything over the Jenga tower came

crumbling down

and I went I have to protect my family

and my kids and I’ve got to do what I

got to do so yes I I went to my husband

at the time and said you need to go and

he did not want to he begged and pleaded

and wanted to stay and I said nope you

know we need you to go so you can work

on yourself and then hopefully we can

you know resume being a family and that

was my hope that was my hope so yeah we

so it was for the moment we told the

kids that night I think actually that

afternoon it was a it was kind of spur

than what was not planned in advance it

was for the moment but it was it had

been a long time coming

yes very long time coming and it wasn’t

divorce that you guys were just doing a

pause separation yes nothing formal just

nope it was your dad’s moving out

– you know work on himself and hopefully

you know he’ll work on himself and be

able to come back that’s kind of how we

laid it out no mine was very different

than that right right when my ex-wife

and I sat down and talked to our kids

divorce papers that are even filed and

in the state of California it takes six

months after you file a divorce for it

to be finalized so we were already four

months into this our kids had no idea

because we were still living in the same

house

leapin in the same bed they had no clue

and when we talked to them it was final

it was the divorce will be final in six

weeks right so a very different right

there was still hope on my end where

your and it was this is done slam the

door right yeah so yeah really really

difficult so let’s talk about you said

that it was kind of spur of the moment

but it wasn’t really spur the moment cuz

you and your ex talked about how are we

gonna tell the kids yes we did that day

we talked about how we’re gonna tell the

kids yes we had not talked about it

before then but yes that day when I said

you got to go we did and so you sat down

and talked to him about it and what you

would say how did that how’d that go it

was me talking and like I said he didn’t

want to go so it was he was upset and

but I was just pretty adamant and you

said that your kids you know we’re

blindsided my kids are blindsided as

well they had no idea no idea this was

coming we kept it from them all these

years of you know turmoil that we’ve

been going through it had been kept from

them so you know I wanted yeah both of

all of our kids when we talked to him

today said that that they were all

blindsided yes and I don’t know that

there’s any other way to do it and my

kids even said that when I talked to my

two kids

you know Rachel even said I’m glad that

I had a really happy good childhood

until that day so if I would have let

them in on our marriage problems 10

years earlier you know I don’t know that

that would have been the right thing to

do I don’t know so you know you brought

up something interesting which i think

is a tip that will bring up again later

and that’s don’t involve your kids and

your marital strife right

yeah keep that keep it separate keep it

separate right is a good tip for us I

knew this was coming for four months

because my ex filed for the divorce and

so we actually did a lot of preparing

talked to our marriage counselor that we

had how are we going to talk to the kids

you know planned it all out so for me

because I’m a planner anyway I had a

plan everything was planned out I got as

much advice as I could on how do we talk

to the kids about this we even role

played which ended up with me mostly

talking yeah so I think that was similar

for both of our situations you did the

talking you did this and I did the

talking and yeah so so very different

the outcomes it turns out were were

different as well well now they’re

pretty much the same but mine was more

totality and yours was we’re gonna work

on this right which my kids said was

confusing right because they didn’t know

our mom and dad gonna get back together

or they not are they you know it was

confusing and we still had you know dad

came over for Thanksgiving and Christmas

and you know during this separation he

when I started working he would come

over and watch Sam while I was at work

and so he was at the house a lot they he

didn’t have a place he was just staying

out of friends or whatever so he didn’t

have a place for the kids to come so he

always came to our house and from for me

it was just the opposite I had bought a

house close to where we were renting

before down the street down the street

seven houses seven houses down that’s

right

mostly so the kids could see and to to

me I planned everything out so

everything was set up so when this

horrible day happened I was trying to

show the kids that there’s some

stability

dad’s right down the street he has a

house right the kids have a place to

stay right and mom’s still renting the

kids have a place to stay right close by

right so that’s that’s one of the other

differences are mine was totality and

also everything logistically was all

taken care of right emotionally that’s a

whole nother story right so yeah and

with me i sat down with Jake and Rachel

they were you know why didn’t you have

all the kids so amanda was at college

and sam was four and I thought that that

was too young to bring him into what we

were gonna talk to the other kids about

so we put him I think he was taking a

nap and we talked to Rachel and Jake

which I think they were 16 and 13

something like that or maybe even older

14 and 17 and sevens yeah something like

that

14 17 I think that’s right so yeah so we

talked to them the two of them and then

called Amanda later that evening but

they when I talk to them today I asked

them what we could have done differently

and you know when we asked our kids this

question we genuinely are looking for

honesty because we want to be able to be

helpful in this podcast and because we

can’t go back and change anything

you know no we can’t but maybe we can

help other couples that are going

through this really tough time right so

Rachel said it maybe it would have been

better for I did all the talking and my

ex did not and they said it might have

been better hurry and Jake said that it

might have been better if

my ex would have done some talking yeah

so it was more unified right it was this

they came out of this conversation that

we had mom is kicking dad out of the

house and so they were angry with me

yeah

and that was true I was asking him to

leave but they didn’t understand the

entirety of the situation and what was

going on no you guys also talked a

little bit about what was going on about

why we were gonna die why well you were

separated separate yes yes we did not

say divorce that day no um

where with with me and my kids it was

your mom and I are getting in divorce

and we’re not telling you why right

right you had talked about that with

your your therapist your counselor and

your ex and you guys had decided not to

tell them that day right yeah that’s

correct

no for for me it was a little bit

different we had Matthew off at college

and then we had the five younger kids at

home the youngest being David who was

about four when it happened three he was

through a year yeah yeah oh no I guess

Tamar for yeah he was Jeb for me right

and I actually flew Matthew out from

college to come to be with the family my

whole idea was it that the whole family

should be together for this horrible

moment yeah so mine was a little bit

different because it was the end of the

family right we knew it yes

yours was we’re on a pause to try and

save the family right exactly that mine

had already reached that at that point

right so a little bit different and the

kid said the same thing they wished that

it was more of a unified front with my

ex and myself I did most of the talking

right so that you know and the situation

as it is you can’t really change it but

that’s another good tip and that is that

you and your soon-to-be ex need to be

unified and talking to the kids together

when this happens yeah that is what Jake

said he said one of the things I think

you did right was

you and Dad together sat down with us

even though he didn’t do much of the

talking he said I think that that’s

important for both parents to be there

no matter what the situation might be if

you can try and come together for that

moment to tell your kids this news I

think that’s for the best

no is there anything that you guys did

to prepare the kids at all before this

happened no I guess not because it was

spur-of-the-moment but it really wasn’t

spur the moment though was it you kind

of knew things were well things have

been falling apart for 10 years

literally but I I’d never really thought

I was gonna have to get to the point or

we were gonna have to separate you know

I know I didn’t want that to happen so I

never really thought that all the way

through until that day literally Wow

yeah and then it was like nope I I’ve

got a I got to protect my family yeah so

for me it was protecting my family as

well but the the marriage was already

over right the paperwork had already

been filed so I actually had four well

six months to prepare for what was what

we had to tell the kids right so I went

into preparing mode right I got my kids

to see counselors or to have someone to

talk to even before we had the divorce

but or before we told the kids about the

divorce I had them meeting with a

counselor to just talk about the changes

that because we just moved to Folsom so

I made up some lame excuse so that at

least they had someone to talk to about

I bought a house I you know flew Matthew

it was very different and Jacob my son

Jacob actually said something about that

do you remember about being so prepared

oh no oh it was I hope I get this right

Jacob after we talked to the kids that

you know hey your mom and I are getting

a divorce we’re no longer living

together

and I bought a house down the street oh

gosh and here’s the new schedule and

here are the logistics and everything

was laid out everything was laid out and

I told them all right then and there and

they said that was a little bit

overwhelming for them right and here you

thought that you were doing the right

thing by saying don’t worry kids

everything is taken care of everything’s

gonna be taken care of everything’s safe

right right there’s it’s all planned out

it’s all good but it was just so much

for them to process it was and he said

it was a little much he said it would

have been better if that came a couple

days or a week later right where they

would have seen that I can see that I

can see that but it is important also to

have logistics all figured out before

you make this announcement true because

if you don’t and then the kids see no

change then they don’t understand they

become very confused right so one of the

things that Rachael said that we did

right was she liked how after we were

done talking to them I said if you guys

want to go have some alone time we had a

basement and her and Jake went

downstairs actually I think Jake went

outside on the property and took off and

Rachel went downstairs she said she took

a shower and cried and then went to her

room and she had time to process so we

didn’t you know make that wrong are you

okay right which she does she said I did

ask do you have any questions about 25

times but I let them have their space

and then she said several hours later I

came down and said do you have any

questions and so she and Jake said the

same thing that he felt like that time

that we gave them to go be alone with

their thoughts was was good well and we

did the same thing my ex and I actually

left the kids all six of them alone and

we we left so that they had time to

process and talk together as siblings

right and they they said that was an

important time that they had to process

things and every single one of my kids

took it completely different yeah

I mean Dallin he said he can’t remember

anything except the words you your mom

and I are getting a divorce

and he goes after that I plugged my ears

and I didn’t want to hear anything else

out of your mouth you know so and it’s

hard for your kids this will destroy

their lives I’m not gonna sugarcoat it

my kids remember the day and the hour

that it happened what a horrible thing

to do to your children no and I’m sorry

to put it that bluntly and bold but your

kids may have a really hard time

forgiving you for some time yeah

now you say it destroyed their lives and

it did and that’s when we have to work

on helping them put it back together

exactly because we made this mess for

them and we have to help them put it

back together all right and that’s the

next tip when you tell the kids you need

to keep all your emotions out of it this

is not about you it’s about your kids

all right you they’re gonna be in an

emotional rollercoaster and you can’t be

you’ve got to be calm

you cannot inject any of your high

emotional state that you’re going to be

in anyway you’ve got to plan ahead

you’ve got to figure this out so that

you can be calm and collected and help

them get through this horrible thing

that you are imposing on them yes I

totally agree

I tell you right this is a really heavy

podcast there’s not much laughter in

this one ah babe no not a lot of

laughter and you know what I want to say

to our listeners if you know of someone

that’s gonna go through this a horrible

thing I hope you will have them listen

to this podcast and maybe if we can just

help one family try and navigate through

this horrible thing that they are gonna

do then it will be worth it right that

we’re sitting here read

Levine the worst day of our lives

hopefully you’ll be worth alright so now

let’s talk about after we got some

Kleenex giggly episode no it’s not let’s

talk about what you do after you tell

the kids we did hint it on some of those

things with our own experiences so let’s

talk about what what to expect after you

tell the kids first thing we said was

give them some time to process

absolutely give them some time to think

to process maybe call their friends you

know what I mean like each kid is gonna

maybe handle it differently talk to each

other make a dartboard with your face on

it go that far but here I mean you give

them space to do what they need to do

they do but your kids still need to show

you some kind of respect so it’s a fine

line you your kids do you need a voice

they’re gonna be angry with you they’re

gonna be very upset they need to be

heard right um but also make sure that

they’re not completely disrespectful for

you you are not if you take that you can

easily say let’s say that my kids were

saying something bad about their mom

after that moment or bad about me either

spouse should step up and say wait just

a second I know you’re upset but this is

a joint thing we’re doing this together

that way you’re showing you unity and

you’re not throwing your ex under the

bus which is hard oh yeah because it’s

not always gorgeous etic No well it’s

not it’s not always a unified thing

because I mean I didn’t want to get

divorced you didn’t want to get divorced

so it’s really really hard when you feel

like I didn’t want this but when your

talent we’re telling you when you’re

telling your kids it’s good for you both

to in that moment be calm and talk to

them

together hey absolutely the next thing

you have to do is make sure that the

kids see a difference so if let’s say

that you did talk to the kids about

separation and then the next day mom and

dad are at breakfast that’s a little

confusing to the kids right I agree so

they don’t they won’t understand

especially your younger kids they won’t

understand what separation then means

right so there has to be a plan on what

you’re doing day two right right after

things happen now something you did

after you told that your kids which

Jacob said I don’t know if that was

right actually down said that to you

brought them down the street to see the

new house that they were gonna go in

each one of their new rooms right and

you and your ex thought that you were

doing the right thing by saying oh and

here’s dad because you said even your ex

came with yeah yeah so it was like

here’s dad’s new house this is where

you’re gonna be you thought this was

once again a stability thing like don’t

worry everything’s your rooms all set

everything’s ready to go but they said

that that was a little overwhelming is

it too much it ya know you do have to

show them so instead of being that

overwhelming what I probably could have

changed was we would have talked about

logistics for example you guys will be

at your mom’s until Wednesday and then

you’ll come over to your your dad’s

which is right down the street and on

Wednesday you’ll get to see right your

dad’s house right at that time yeah or

something like that so yeah it was a

little overwhelming me trying to fix

everything all the time right and that’s

why we said well we can’t go back and

change any of these things and luckily

we have very forgiving children we do we

are so blessed because our kids have it

has been eight years it’s been eight

years but they have done a good job yep

they’re forgiving us yep they have and

loving us regardless whether we’re

crybabies or not yes the next thing to

do is to set up a routine

as soon as possible so that the kids

have a normalcy that they can see even

though their lives destroyed they still

need some structure something that they

can rely on that is solid and this is

probably one of the hardest things don’t

be doing me and gloomy all the time you

got to find some fun

that’s really hard and that’s even hard

for me and I’m the fun master I want to

go have fun but it’s hard when you feel

like you’re I mean your world has

imploded you feel like curling up in a

ball and laying in bed you do and you’ve

got these kids to take care of and uh

it’s it’s such a hard rough time and

that’s the time that your kids are gonna

need you the most is is that first part

after the separation right your worlds

been rocked you cannot go into your own

little shell and be selfish right this

is the time when you need to step up and

show them the best that you can

stability calmness and routine and yes

go do some fun things with them remember

that you can still go have fun we can

let loose and you know go get an ice

cream go for a swim be together and do

some fun things um

the other advice we give is don’t get a

dog we’ll talk about that next episode

the divorced dog episode the one thing

my mom gave me some great advice and I

think you recognize it when we actually

got married it was have dinner together

sit down with your kids Oh with your

kids and have dinner together on real

plates not paper plates there’s a

temptation especially if if you only

have the kids for like two or three

hours on a Wednesday night which was the

case when I first got separated or

divorced I only have the kids on

Wednesday night the temptation was all

right it’s chicken nuggets on paper

plates again tonight

my mom instilled in me that make sure

you set the table make sure that the

kids show that stability that continuity

that this is home this is home not just

temporaries right this is oh and I I I’m

happy she told you that at the same time

Joanne I remember when I married you and

I mean I I like to do plates you know

most the time I’m real plates most the

time but occasionally I’m like you know

what hey let’s just do paper plates and

remember in the beginning of our

marriage you were like no and I was like

what is his deal with paper plates that

was the reason why yes I want to make

sure the kids don’t like this was a

permanent spot you know what that was no

big deal we rarely in fact the only time

we do paper plates now is if the

dishwasher is full and we didn’t run it

[Music]

all right so let’s hit some quick tips

on how to go through this whole thing

first off our first tip is don’t get

divorced in the first place do

everything you can get a good marriage

counselor do everything you can to not

get divorced yep first tip don’t get

divorced

yeah that second you do yep it’s

remember it’s about the children not you

when you sit down to talk with them it’s

not about you keep your feelings and

emotions to yourself and don’t inject

anxiety into the situation be calm talk

to the kids and if you have to roleplay

this ahead of time

roleplay it plan it out do your best to

keep the emotions out of it yep another

tip is what is your plan for the next

day you’ve got to have that what’s going

to happen the very next day and you need

to tell the kids what’s gonna happen the

very next day you don’t have to dump on

them what’s gonna happen the next month

or the next year like I did Yeah right

but you can say you know what tomorrow

this is what’s gonna happen or even say

like I think you know on Wednesday

you’re gonna come down to my house so

whoa right try and give them a little a

little bit of an idea of what because

they’re gonna be confused on what’s the

future look like

right so they want to know immediate

future what’s gonna happen tomorrow

right right so yep what’s the next one

babe oh it’s a question are you still

living in the same house

we just read an article where this

couple separated and divorced and living

in the same house together then why did

they bother to get divorced very

confusing to the kids in a lot of

respects there may be some time where

you are living in the same house because

maybe you can’t afford a separate house

yes but you’ve got to make it clear to

the kids what’s going on it could be

very confusing for them so try and be

clear about the situation not be I mean

I remember talking to Rachel today and I

said was it confusing when your dad came

back and had Thanksgiving with us and

she said yes but the whole thing is

confusing I mean they’re there their

heads are just spinning so try and

decrease as much yeah confusion as you

can yes by being clear that doesn’t mean

spilling in and confessing to everything

that’s gone on in your marriage to your

kids no that’s not appropriate no adult

conversations are for adults not for

children right right so keep that in

mind as well also make sure that you’ve

planned out the logistics on what’s

going on who’s paying for what if you

don’t have a formal agreement which you

guys didn’t we did because the paperwork

had already been filed right right well

yeah my ex and I we just had a verbal

agreement when he left of what he would

still pay for him it was just a verbal

thing at the time it was just verbal and

don’t get caught up on trying to be

perfect on this that’d be another tip

that we have because there’s no perfect

way to tell your kids that their family

is destroyed right and that is what when

I asked Jake today what we could do

differently to help someone else and he

said there’s no magical way to do this

he said it’s just gonna suck that’s what

he said and it is it is and as much as I

hate that word fact my kids are gonna be

so surprised that I just said that that

only because it was a quote from Jake

Jake made me say it

sure blame Jake that’s right okay so

another tip is should you tell the kids

why you got divorced yeah so this is

where you and I differ yep because I did

we told them why we were separating um

and I didn’t and it was kind of an

agreement that my ex and I had that we

worked through because we probably spent

three or four sessions with

marriage counselor I’m talking about how

are we gonna talk to the kids about the

divorce right and are we gonna tell them

and we kept going back and forth the

most important thing is that we both

agreed in the end not to tell them

specifics just to say that you know the

divorce is happening right no the kids

actually asked why and we said we’re not

gonna tell you at this time right so so

we’re in my situation we did tell them

in fact rachel says that I may have used

the wrong word een I started off by

saying that their dad was sick and so

she immediately thought with cancer or

something so be careful of your wording

I didn’t you know he wasn’t ill that way

he had a problem he had an addiction so

you know you have to be careful of your

wording yeah I dare them and I would

also say your when you talk to your kids

it’s not a half hour conversation you

don’t need to over talk to them right or

try and convince them that this is the

best thing right yet you’ll never

convince them in the moment so just get

the facts out and then let them kind of

out their time just to sit with it and

then come back later and say do you have

any questions yes I think that’s the

best way to go I love you I love you too

and I love I love our kids I love our

kids too I don’t know how much I love

our listeners for giving us the

suggestion to do this with episode this

was definitely the hardest one so far

yeah absolutely yeah

[Music]

our lemonade moment of the week has to

do with Paige turning 50 why did you say

that because you said we had to talk

about how old we’re getting and we have

to stay active gosh I didn’t mean for

you to tell everybody that I was 50 well

not yet yes next week just announce that

any how we went on a hike to Hidden

Falls which if you live in the Calif in

the Sacramento area Sacramento area you

need to check out this hike it is fun we

do it every year yep we climb the falls

um

wait hold on I take the picture I did it

last year no no yes you have never

claimed those Falls yes I’m out one time

yes I have you did not yes I know you

have not you’ve always been the one up

up in the wall overlook taking pictures

last year I climb the falls with you

dude see he’s getting so old he has now

rewriting history I wanted you guys can

see the pictures from last year where I

climb the Falls but what I wanted to say

was how important it is that you do fun

active things with your kids get out

there and go do something fun active I

mean we were getting scratched up

because if there’s blackberry bushes

everywhere we’re scratched we’re you

know eating the berries as we go along

but the kids were having so much fun and

there’s all these different little pools

they have they call them there’s an Adam

and Eve pool over here and don’t sign

yeah we climbed up the waterfall and

anyway that’s our lemonade do something

fun go do something fun and active

[Music]

wait stop the bumper music Paige has

something to say he climbed the falls

last year one time you climbed the Falls

one time he did he climbed the Falls one

time check out our evidence on where’s

the lemonade calm brand new website I’m

sorry sweetie you did claim the Falls

good job thank you if you liked today’s

episode

give us five stars on iTunes Spotify

Google and head to Facebook and like us

and check out our blog at where’s the

lemonade org where you can leave

questions and comments yeah but most of

all go out and make some lemonade you

bet you baby

[Music]

next week’s episode is on divorce dog

again at Disneyland and skydiving yup

that’s it

[Music]

you